Advance Your Marketing Career as a Builder & Helper Ft. Noah Learner

Noah Learner:

The formula that I started to lean into back then and has been my north star throughout working in digital is a super simple formula. It’s just revenue equals traffic times conversion rate times average order value. Super simple. We’ve all heard of this formula in different ways. But for me, it works online. It works offline. In the bike rental space, it was, how can I get more people to walk into the store? How can I get more of them to say yes, and how can I get more of them to buy more expensive stuff every single time they buy something? Those three things multiply by each other. If you can make any one of them bigger, you make more money. If you can make all three of them bigger, then you can make a lot more money.

Adam Kerpelman:

Hey, everybody, it’s The Data-Driven Marketer. I’m Adam.

Mark Richardson:

I’m Mark.

Noah Learner:

And I’m Noah.

Adam Kerpelman:

Welcome back for another hang in the data basement. Thanks for joining us and special thanks to our guest this week. Noah Learner, who is the VP of Product at Two Octobers. You, Noah, are, you were the first person to bite when we started trying to run a marketing ground game at MozCon on our plan to interview speakers and stuff. So that’s how we found you. You were speaking at MozCon and were down enough to say, “Yeah, Hey, I’ll talk to you.” Unfortunately, we couldn’t go because Mark got COVID.

Mark Richardson:

I got the rona and had to abort that mission.

Adam Kerpelman:

But yeah, you agreed to join us here after that. So thanks for being here. Otherwise, I’ll throw to you for sort of a quick intro on your background and what got you to speaking at MozCon.

Noah Learner:

Totally. So in terms of background, I came to digital after a 20-year career working in bicycle retail. So I love your Mellow Johnny’s t-shirt. It was always a shop that I thought was a model for how to do well with content. I then worked for a bike eCommerce platform called SmartEtailing, which is located in Gunbarrel or Boulder, Colorado. After I stopped working there in December of 2016, I founded my own little SEO agency called Bike Shop SEO and we focused on helping bike shops make more money online. Typically, we saw revenues increase about 61% online after partnering with us. I then came to realize that I really enjoyed innovation work and data, and didn’t really enjoy the operational side of owning a business and merged with Two Octobers, our little agency with a bigger agency in March of 2020, right as the pandemic began and I joined as product director and started building things.

Noah Learner:

The first thing that we built was a tool called postamatic, which helps local businesses and even enterprise businesses, post Google business profile posts, answer Google Q&As, and also manage reviews. And that’s a free sheets add-on, Google sheets add-on. Actually, now they’re called extensions. And then I started thinking a ton about the data challenges we were going to have. This was in March, April, May of 2020. I started to think a lot about all the data challenges that bike shops were going to face after the pandemic. And it was pretty clear to me that the performance that was skyrocketing in 2021 or 2020, that we were going to need to be able to tell stories after the pandemic, so that we’d be able to compare our data to kind the historic data of 2018/19, et cetera. So I started getting into data pipe lining so we could store that search console data.

Noah Learner:

And the reason why we did that is that Google search console has a 16 month look back window. And as you move forward in time, you lose access to that older data. So we started to build a data pipe lining solution and a product called Explorer, and that’s been super, super exciting because it helps people look at their search console data at scale. When I say at scale, when you use the search console natively, you can see about 1,000 rows of data for any of the different views. And our tool pulls in about 50,000 rows of data per day per property. And that just gives you a much, much deeper view into the long tail, especially. So that’s my background. Hopefully that’s helpful.

Adam Kerpelman:

Absolutely, we got a whole bunch of [inaudible 00:04:38] now. First thing I think we should hit is Mellow Johnny’s. Yeah, I wore my shirt because I figured you’d appreciate it. It’s Lance Armstrong’s bike shop. So there’s an interesting aspect of that, that’s sort of like, you can jumpstart a presence in a slightly different way earlier when you have an influencer associated with your product. That’s why everyone knows about it especially in the community of cyclists.

Noah Learner:

Yep. Amazing branding. I think early his presence was super helpful, and then it’s one of those cautionary tales though, too, right? It was amazing early and he really helped. And then when all of the doping scandal stuff reared its ugly head, it also pointed to the downside of influencers involved in businesses. The business took a material hit too after.

Mark Richardson:

Absolutely.

Noah Learner:

Which is crazy.

Mark Richardson:

It’s that same phenomenon as the Fyre festival. It’s like you almost get what you pay for in a way.

Noah Learner:

Yeah, totally.

Adam Kerpelman:

So, yeah. I think there are a lot of avenues we could chase that I think are interesting, but I want to start back at the beginning in terms of the local, or we would call it local SEO now, right? But if you’re talking about on-the-ground retail for bikes where it hits digital, you’re still trying to get people within a certain mile radius to come into your shop and buy a bike. I’m curious, what bumped into in that space initially. And then what it was like to go through that transition with when e-commerce comes online there?

Adam Kerpelman:

It’s still sort of a place where it’s like, I buy almost everything I possibly can online, but I’m still apt to go to a bike shop to get a thing. And it’s not a nostalgia thing. It’s still like, you got to sit on the thing and try it out. If I’m going to replace my road bike, it has to fit right. I’m going to be on it for hundreds, hundreds of miles a ride. So even the e-commerce bit, it’s when I think about trying to sell bikes online, it’s like, how do you do returns? It’s not like a pair of pants you can just return, so.

Noah Learner:

These were all good questions. So when I started doing, I was the GM of a manager, excuse me, I was a GM of a bike shop on Nantucket Island called Young’s Bicycle Shop. It’s been around and family owned since 1931. So they’re in year 92 now, and the fourth generation owns it. And at the time we were a little bike shop that made the majority of our money renting bicycles to people when they came to visit Nantucket. And we were in between two other bike shops that were owned by the same people. And they had people out on the street, almost like ticket scalpers or drug dealers. “Want a bike? Want a scooter?” “Want a bike? Want a scooter?” And that’s what we were competing against. On both sides they would have six or eight people on the sidewalk trying to dominate people walking up and down the street.

Noah Learner:

And I had just read Blue Ocean strategy. And I read it because we were having a hard time competing, even though every bed in breakfast would send people down to the pier to go see Harvey, who was the owner of our bike shop. That was not good enough direction. They needed to be sent to Young’s Bicycle Shop with the wheel spinning out front. They needed that extra level of pointing. And so it became clear to me that the red ocean was competing on price on the street. And that just didn’t make any sense to me. And so the blue ocean strategy was, how can we do what our competition can’t? And that to me was let’s fight that battle when people are in Washington DC or San Francisco or Boston or anywhere else. And they’re thinking of planning their vacation to Nantucket. And so I was a marketing team of one needing to build our business, and I needed to do it in a way that would slowly ramp up and have our competition not quite know what we were doing until we made a lot of progress.

Noah Learner:

I did all kinds of AB testing about different checkout flows. I built an eCommerce solution with the help of a local developer to enable us to not only take bike reservations, i.e., get money in the shoulder seasons when we needed cash flow so we could take out a smaller seasonal note, and also not only took reservations, but took money, which was amazing, which meant that we could then have hundreds of bikes ready for people that were tagged in advance for people on specific days throughout the summer. That’s how I got started, right? And that was taking bike reservations. And the formula that I started to lean into back then, and this is in 2008 or nine, and it’s been my north star throughout working in digital is a super simple formula.

Noah Learner:

It’s just revenue equals traffic times conversion rate times, average order value, super simple. We’ve all heard of this formula in different ways, but for me it works online; it works offline. In the bike rental space, it was, how can I get more people to walk into the store? How can I get more of them to say yes, and how can I get more of them to buy more expensive stuff every single time they buy something? Those three things multiply by each other. So if you can make any one of them bigger, you make more money. If you can make all three of them bigger, then you can make a lot more money. And so that’s the formula that I used when I was at Young’s and that’s the formula that I used at Bike Shop SEO in order to grow revenues on average 61%. And then that’s also been the way that I’ve approached everything when I help people make more money.

Noah Learner:

And that average order value and conversion rate. I build all kinds of eCommerce widgets on websites, whether it’s the first cart abandonment recovery tool for the bike industry or whether it was the first notify me when this item is back in stock tool for the bike industry. Well, the first one rolled out before the pandemic, but the second one was really key during the pandemic when inventory was a massive problem. So I focus on the money. I focus on the revenue and then I focus on the things that I can leverage and take advantage of that other people can’t, that’ll help us compete in ways that other people can’t. So there’s being laser focused on bottom line revenue, but also having the technical skillset and the analytical skillset to understand where the opportunities are and how I can take advantage of those in ways that other people can’t. So it’s that marrying of technical and bottom line market.

Adam Kerpelman:

Yeah. Well, and I love that.

Mark Richardson:

I love it.

Adam Kerpelman:

The reservations is a great, I think, example of using digital to grow, or I guess in this case, stabilize the brick-and-mortar sort need there, which is if you need to rent a bike, there’s not really going to be an e-commerce solution for that that strikes me as scalable. Uber for that doesn’t work quite the way that people might imagine it would. But what you can do is stabilize seasonal revenue by using the digital tools to push out, to stabilize your demand curve, ultimately. So you can say, okay, well, if we’re pushing these out, we know we have this, and then you said it, the downstream impact is huge. You can go to a bank and say, look, we’ve already got this many reservations booked, here’s the attrition rate. So yeah, some of them will fall off, but otherwise guaranteed revenue.

Mark Richardson:

It’s interesting, obviously, in that formula, you don’t really account for churn or retention. Are you solely focused top of funnel, middle funnel? Is it sort of your philosophy that if you feed those consistently, the bottom of funnel and the retention of customers will essentially handle itself?

Noah Learner:

Good question. I think about the funnel in a couple different ways. So we go after the bottom of the funnel with shopping ads, we also go after the top of the funnel with buyer guides and brand guides, we go after the middle of the funnel with sizing chart information and comparison content. And we use the top and the middle to build remarketing audiences, to get people to come back and click through on shopping ads and also on display ads. And we do some work on video with YouTube and we use YouTube to then build remarketing audiences as well. So I think about all three of them, but in terms of where we put the most content out, it tends to be top of the funnel. But then, in terms of the search terms that we rank for, we’re trying our best to rank for as many bottom of the funnel stuff.

Noah Learner:

And it’s weird how it all works as a system. And what I mean by that is you build topical authority for all the different stages of the buyer’s journey. And you do that by building these brand guides and category guides and product launch content. And by building those and using strong internal linking to go straight to the product detail page, what you’ll find is that your collection page content and your product detail page content ranks better, thus driving more traffic and conversions. Does that make sense?

Mark Richardson:

It does. Yeah. It goes to a great slide you had, I think this was in your MozCon deck and you said, “Keyword research isn’t the answer,” which I love that take because essentially it’s only so valuable as it supports the topics that you’re looking to dominate, right, or you’re looking to establish authority on.

Noah Learner:

An example of that is, so if we work in the bike space, the biggest category is mountain bikes. That is the topic and there’s all kinds of stuff inside it, whether it’s individual models or it’s brands or it’s specific suspension systems or whatever. But the thing that we want to win on is mountain bikes as the whole big topic. And all of the topical authority we can build around that is in order to support winning mountain bikes for sale; that transactional query, that’s going to get people to the collection page and product detail page.

Mark Richardson:

It’s like, what questions are tied to conversion? What is that… You almost need the informational, you need sort of the navigational presence, but ultimately it’s like you said, it’s supporting that transactional conversion keyword, right? The for sale, store near me, things like that.

Noah Learner:

Totally.

Adam Kerpelman:

So from here, I want to chase the, there’s all the stuff we were just talking about in the keyword, SEO, all that sort of strategic side of it. You’re in product though, right? I mean, your whole story was, so I built a thing that did X thing that ultimately… This is what I think, I feel you basically. I go back and forth between a marketing job and then starting a company and then a marketing job and then starting a company. And I end up doing the marketing for all of my startups, but I oscillate back and forth between that builder and storyteller sort of thing, I guess, but they inform one another.

Adam Kerpelman:

And so it’s that same thing of going, okay, well, so here’s a problem I just unearthed, like you were talking about search console data and stuff like that. And you start to look at that SEO data and you go, okay, there’s a hot mess right here that if I could solve for people, if nothing, they would stick around for this other product or whatever, or work with this agency, that kind of stuff. So talk a little bit about that part. What’s the leap from the SEO and the marketing and the market need you see in terms of, Hey, I want to ride bikes. Here’s how we can attack it with the digital thing into what I actually should do is build a widget that will tell you when that part will be back in stock.

Noah Learner:

There’s a lot to unpack with those questions. Sure. Well, I’m going to go piecemeal one at a time, and I’m going to speak about what resonated with me. So the way that I think about it is I think about the revenue formula when I was working with bike shops and I made the cart abandonment recovery tool. My thought going into it was, I think I can have a seven to 12% growth and revenue with this one thing. This one thing will drive big revenue growth. And so I started to research what was necessary to build it, and the reason why no one had built it before was that the specific eCommerce platform that bike shops work on, they would strip all Java script code out of the checkout except for the Google analytics code block. And so I came to realize through testing that I could use that Google analytics code block to store whatever JavaScript I wanted.

Noah Learner:

And because of that, I could then do all kinds of stuff to grab information from on page in order to inform cart abandonment recovery type functionality. And so it’s like-

Mark Richardson:

It’s really slick.

Noah Learner:

Just always asking the question. What if? What if I do X? What if I do Y? And clicking things, opening the Dev tools inside of Chrome while clicking around on a page will show you all kinds of opportunities to do things. For example, if you open an eCommerce store page and you go to a product detail page and have Chrome dev tools open to the network pain, and then you change the color to blue or red, you’re going to see API calls, fire, and you’re like, whoa, that’s pretty cool.

Noah Learner:

There’s an inventory API working behind the scenes. What can I do with that? I start messing around and then you just start playing with it. So there’s like an element of play with all of this. When I do the work that I do, the innovation oftentimes feels like I’m playing. I don’t feel like I’m working. I feel like I’m the luckiest guy in the entire world to do what I do. You also talked about bridging the gap or that interplay tension between builder marketer. And for me, those two things are super powers with each other. I haven’t launched a billion dollar brand. I don’t have that in my narrative over my life story. I did. I didn’t just sell my little company to a big company, but what I do understand is the power of combining those things together. So last year, for example, I really, really, really wanted to build a product that worked with search console data because I saw that it was a way to enable small and medium size businesses to compete with enterprise businesses in a way that they hadn’t been able to do before.

Noah Learner:

And so I started to show people what I had built, and then they started showing what I built to conference organizers, and that got me speaking roles. And then that got me a speaking role at a conference called Local U, which turned into MozCon virtual last year, which turned into a really cool conference that MarketMuse puts on, called the Content Strategy Collective, I think live, CSC live was turned into White Spark’s local summit. So all of these things turned into other things. And the through line that took me a long time to understand is, Hey, do innovation work, speak in order to have an excuse to do innovation work, speak to promote the innovation work. You know what I mean? So it’s like this virtuous cycle, it keeps building on itself.

Mark Richardson:

It’s reconvertary content, right?

Adam Kerpelman:

Well, the funny thing though, in a sense you described academia, right? If you’re a professor, you keep your job by publishing things, not by teaching kids, which is sort of a problem with that model given the promises that they’re putting forward about-

Mark Richardson:

Unless you get tenure.

Adam Kerpelman:

… teaching kids unless you get tenure, right? But first thing I want to jump on from what you mentioned is the dev tools thing, because that’s one of my favorite things to show people in terms of you understand when you click around this simple feeling thing, because we’ve worked really hard to make it feel simple, all this madness is happening and I’ve dealt with it in the client context where people come and say, well, we got you a mockup, how come it costs $12,000 or whatever to get that thing built out. You say, well, let me take you to a very simple website and then open up this network panel and show you all of the craziness that’s happening because that needs to be scripted now.

Adam Kerpelman:

And that’s the easiest way to cause them to go, oh my God, I have no idea what’s going on. It’s like you just showed them the matrix and then they’ll pay whatever you want. But also the fact that that exists and that that is a necessary part of the web. And that code is open is how I learned to do it. I haven’t taken a CS class in my life, but that window has in one way or another always been there. And so in another funny way, it sort makes an end run around academia because you can learn everything that we’re talking about here just by popping that panel open and chasing the stuff that is interesting because all the stuff happens in the open. And so like you said, you’re there building products in a way that they almost can’t stop you because to stop you from doing some of that stuff inside of Google’s tools would be to turn off their source of income essentially, or web functionality is what it might cost you to guess.

Noah Learner:

Yeah. I want to make sure we’re super clear around this concept of they can’t stop you.

Adam Kerpelman:

Yeah.

Noah Learner:

It’s not a black [inaudible 00:23:07] I don’t try and attack websites or take people down or anything like that. Everything that I’m building is all around making my clients more money and I’m doing it ethically. I’m not hurting other people’s businesses. I’m leveraging APIs and I’m leveraging stuff that’s already in place, or that notify me when this item is back in stock, all the websites leverage a CSS framework called bootstrap. So I leverage that CSS framework to make my popup look cool. You know what I mean? I’m going to take advantage of what’s available already to not make the pages load any faster than they need to or anything like that. But I hear you loud and clear.

Adam Kerpelman:

Another thing I could say easily is the fact that there are even SEO conferences. That’s still a thing that it makes sense and it’s inevitable, but I can’t believe it from where I started from because of that aspect of dev tools and playing. And at least for my wave of people doing this stuff, it wasn’t a thing you could just go learn about. You had to just go play with it and say, look, I made these changes and now we rank better. Now we’re getting more traffic now. We’re whatever. Now we’ve gotten to the phase where there are conferences and people get to go speak about it. And I wish that content existed at the same time. At the same time, I feel like for people like us in the room as tinkerers, that content existed, I don’t know that I would go consume it. I’d be off playing on TikTok or something instead. And in a space where maybe there’s still not anything to, you know?

Noah Learner:

Yeah.

Adam Kerpelman:

I don’t know if that necessarily circles back to a question, though, other than maybe to speak about the conference experience. It’s cool that you… I’m not off speaking at conferences, right? You turned it into a thing of providing that educational edge for the next wave of people and ultimately trying to help people get ahead and it filters theirs down through this whole, sort of, I don’t want to call it secondary, but it’s the conference existing and them selling tickets and all that kind of stuff is secondary to the actual market for marketers. It’s a parallel business.

Mark Richardson:

So my first MozCon local was in February of 2016. I sat next to a guy who was the head of local at Two Octobers at the time. And that’s how I learned about the company that I work at. And I started cyberstalking them way back then, which is super fun. But I was sitting at that conference and I looked at the people on stage and I said, I want to do that. I want to do that. And I was really anxious at the time about the prospect of being in front of other people and bearing my thoughts and soul. And am I good enough? Do I have to say anything that’s relevant? And I felt that way forever. Just that imposter syndrome kind of thing. And then I remember speaking once at a conference and I was super, super nervous. I felt like I had to pee my pants.

Mark Richardson:

I went to the bathroom 10 times before I got on stage. That’s incredibly, you can tell I was anxiety-ridden. It was overwhelming. I got on stage. I told a really bad joke and everybody laughed. And I was like, oh, what? That’s messed up. It was this liberating moment of I can just be me and I don’t have to be anybody else. And I don’t have to be smart. And I’m Noah and I’m short, and that’s good, right? And that was a really interesting moment, but I still felt nervous right up until MozCon of this year. I don’t quite understand what happened other than what I’m about to share with you. I had COVID, I was lying in bed and I got diagnosed on that Saturday. I took PAXlovid that night. And then the following morning I woke up and took round two of PAXlovid and I passed out and took a nap, woke up, and an hour later I had my first of 15 different panic attacks during COVID.

Mark Richardson:

And I didn’t quite know what it was. I’d had one panic attack in 2017. And so it felt similar, but way more extreme. And so I was sitting there and I looked up online how to deal with a panic attack. And I learned this breathing technique, which if you’ve ever had anxiety, this will help you; breathe in really slowly, four seconds, hold it for three or four seconds, and then exhale for seven. So I had this breathing technique that had helped me get through panic attacks. This is a feeling of anxiety that’s so bad that I fainted the first time, I thought I was dying. I thought I was having a heart attack. So the process of living through that and the process of successfully getting through a panic attack with a breathing technique and reinforcing it with the thought of I’m in control and sort of having a cognitive connection between breath and overcoming fear and anxiety was super, super powerful.

Mark Richardson:

So I’m backstage at MozCon. The woman in front of me is going to talk, it’s her first time speaking at a stage that big and she’s losing her mind, super anxious, super sweaty, jumping around like someone on meth. Not that I know what that’s like, but I was just totally projecting. So she was having a hard time. I showed her the breathing technique, it helped. I helped her calm down. She went out, crushed it. Did a great job. And as I’m sitting in the back there, I felt really good, and I was smiling, and I felt the smile. I really felt it. And then a little bit of anxiety started to come through and I was like, boom. I went straight into the breathing technique, took control in one cycle of that breath. So it lasted 17, 18 seconds, whatever. And then five minutes later it happened again, one cycle and I was in control.

Mark Richardson:

And it was in that moment where I felt this feeling of this is going to be fun, not fear, but fun. And I also had this other mantra that I told myself, which is, I belong here. And it’s a really weird moment when you can tell yourself that you’re good enough, that what you have to say matters, that you belong in that place and that you’re going to go out there and fucking crush it, right? And I had that kind of level of self-confidence and I went and I did it. And I think if you talk to people who were at MozCon and who got to see me speak, I think that I did pretty well because I felt good. And I felt like all those things I just shared with you.

Adam Kerpelman:

I’ll say, go team panic attack. Yeah, no, I had my first panic attack. Similarly, since the pandemic and everything, it’s a new thing for me also to have panic attacks. And so that first experience anybody who has them understands that first time of being like I think I’m dying. Is this a heart attack? And then you figure out what it is and have to… Yeah, the thing for me with what public speaking I’ve had to do has always been to remind myself that most of the people in the room are consumed by just being happy that they’re not in your shoes because everyone is so afraid of public speaking that if you fuck up, they’re not busy going, oh, look at the guy who messed up. They’re busy going, I’m so happy that’s not me. And if you can recover from it with a joke, then they have extra respect for you. And so really, you can’t fail as long as you’re willing to own any failure that does happen on stage.

Mark Richardson:

And the SEO community’s so supportive too. I mean, your case in point, you gifted your breathing technique to this woman who is going through an episode of her own. And then it just comes back to you in that applause and that laughter, right? It’s first and foremost, it’s just really supportive. I find most of the people in the SEO community to be truly help-minded, empathetic type of people.

Noah Learner:

I love that you got my head in the right space there, Mark. So I’m really focused on helping people. And you probably saw that on the Twitter thread. I go out of my way to have zoom calls and meetings with anybody who wants to talk about data, SEO, or advancing their career in marketing. And if you look me up on Twitter and you want to build your network DM me, I will jump in a call with you. And I will talk about data, talk about your career, and talk about ways that maybe we could collaborate. And I’ve done that at the last couple conferences where I’ve said that out loud. And the reason why was I was lying in bed, like I mentioned, before with COVID. And I was trying to think about how to do my MozCon deck. And I really, really, really wanted to talk about helping people with their career, because when you’re lying in bed with COVID, the concept of talking about topic clusters, is just not all important.

Mark Richardson:

Furthest thing from your heart at that point, yeah

Noah Learner:

Yeah, totally. And when you’re just trying to get through panic attack number six of the day, topic clusters isn’t top of mind, but people’s career is. And I started thinking about friends of mine who’d passed because of COVID and other reasons. And I started to think about what really matters and what really matters is of managing one’s career. And I felt like what I had done in my career was that whole confirmation bias based on one’s success, that’s like a thing and a problem. Well, I had felt like what I had done was repeatable and that if people were willing to dedicate themselves to a process, they could really get ahead. And what that looked like was pretty simple. It’s like, number one, you have to hone your craft and you have to own whatever your superpower is. If it’s like for me, it’s that weird interplay of building things and being sort of tied really tightly to people’s business goals.

Noah Learner:

That’s my superpower. And so for me to get ahead, I had to lean into that as much as possible. You’ll know what your superpower is based on what all your colleagues, your clients, your bosses tell you, you’re great at. And also the thing that makes time just drift away into the ethos every single day that you’re at work. Also, Hamlet Batista, who passed from COVID in January of 2021. People like Dan Lipson, JR Oakes. These are some pretty high level SEOs and digital marketers who’ve made it a point of open sourcing and sharing as much of the stuff as they learn as possible. They taught me to help and give, give, give, give as much as possible all the time. And so I’ve embraced that because I believe that whatever you put out into the world comes back three to four fold of whatever you do to help.

Noah Learner:

And there is no transactionality about it. It’s just give, and I know that whatever I give is going to come back to me many times more than what I put out into the world. Join a community of people who are like-minded of you. If you’re into automation, join a slack group about that. If there isn’t a community build one and in, so doing you’ll start your YouTube channel or your hangout or whatever. And then what you’re going to find is that people will start to really want to be around you and they’ll want to help you as much as you can, because you’ve created a space in a community for people to get together. So by helping and building communities and honing your craft and being just a little bit strategic about it, you can double or triple your income in just a few short years. And I believe that. And if anyone wants to grow their network and build that board of advisors of people who really, really care about your outcomes, I’d love to be a part of your network. So just reach out.

Adam Kerpelman:

I can’t think of a better way to wrap this up. I mean, because you just summed up why we’re here. Before we started recording, I said, look, this is a community play to bring together people that think this way about this stuff. So we can all help one another move forward with this kind of thing. And also you got to my outro anyway, which is just to ask where people should look you up, if they want to contact you that way.

Noah Learner:

Twitter. Noah Learner, N-O-A-H L-E-A-R-N-E-R, just my name. I also do a lot on clubhouse, too. We host rooms most nights on clubhouse and the room is called SEO Shooting the Poop. And it’s most nights at 7:30 PM Mountain Standard Time, which is like two hours behind Eastern. And it’s super, super fun. It’s like a bunch of friends sitting around a campfire and we talk about a lot of SEO and digital marketing and topics go off too. But it’s an amazing group of people SEOs from HubSpot, SEOs from Wayfair, SEOs from Expedia, all kinds of folks jump into that space.

Adam Kerpelman:

Awesome. Very cool. I’ll definitely check that out. Thanks for joining us. No, this is great. And thanks to everybody for listening. This has been The Data-Driven Marketer. I’m Adam.

Mark Richardson:

I’m Mark.

Noah Learner:

And I’m Noah.

Adam Kerpelman:

Take it easy, everybody.

Mark Richardson:

Thanks for listening to The Data-Driven Marketer. Our show is produced by Jessica Jacobson and Dan Salcius. This episode was edited by Steve Kosh. The Data-Driven Marketer is sponsored by NetWise, a Dun & Bradstreet company. Any views or opinions expressed in this episode do not represent the views or opinions of NetWise or Dun & Bradstreet.